Jim Crow Laws and Homosexuality

what if it was my religious belief that black people were subhuman and shouldn’t mix with whites, would you feel the same way? -Kiki Yuyu comment on YouTube

This question was asked at the end of the exchange with Kiki Yuyu that I chronicled in my previous post, “Exchange with a Lost Soul“.  The questioner is arguing that draconian fines like the $150,000.00 fine recently imposed on a baker for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding should be used to destroy the economic life of “bigots” who don’t agree with him that the homosexual lifestyle is healthy and fulfilling.  It is an important enough question that I decided to deal with it in a separate post.

The first thing to note about this question is that it is based in a totalitarian philosophy.  “I don’t like the way you think, I don’t like the way you behave, therefore I will use the draconian power of the state to ruin your life so that you will change your behaviour.”  If this totalitarian mindset becomes commonplace, the longer term consequences must inevitably be catastrophic.  The communists who took over Russia at first approved of killing only their political opponents, but once Stalin seized control the apparatus that was originally used only to kill White Russians (White in this context referring to the supporters of the Tsar and not to race.) was eventually used to kill most of Stalin’s revolutionary comrades.  Even if I agreed that “homophobia” was a problem that needed to be addressed by the state, using draconian methods will eventually lead to a horrific totalitarian state which causes enormous suffering.

Another thing to note is that totalitarian government action caused the problems of racism in the 1950s which Kiki finds so obviously wrong they needed to be fixed using government action.  Store owners and private bus companies want as many paying customers as they can get and had absolutely no economic incentive to treat black customers badly and every economic incentive to treat black customers well.  What happened in the American South was that a small minority of bigots used government legislation to force business owners and public transit operators to treat black people unequally.  Government regulation in the form of so-called “Jim Crow” laws, therefore, was the essence of the problem.  The best way to solve the problem was to get government out of the business of enforcing racist laws and let the people in the society do as their conscience directed.  Freedom was the answer that would eventually have solved the problem with the “Jim Crow” laws.

Now this kind of solution where economic incentive is allowed to solve problems gradually over time instead of using draconian and totalitarian means is deeply unsatisfying to the mindset of some leftists.  They want to live in their fantasy Utopia and they want to live there as soon as possible and every government action has to be judged based on how “progressive” they view it.  Because they find it incomprehensible that God could be real or that disregarding His laws could have cataclysmic consequences for our society, our beliefs make no sense to them and they hate us for opposing “love”.  Kiki and his fellow travellers will not extend tolerance to their political opponents as was done when a Christian worldview that urged human beings to “turn the other cheek” ruled the land.  Their totalitarian tactics will start with “homophobia” but will be extended to impose radical socialist and environmentalist agendas.  The end result of these political tactics will be persecution of Christians, economic hardship, escalating violence, totalitarianism and perpetual poverty.

About Robert V

Former atheist currently living in Toronto.
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9 Responses to Jim Crow Laws and Homosexuality

  1. Pingback: Exchange with a Lost Soul | A Thoughtful Christian

  2. sonniq says:

    Boy are you off base. Let me point out a few glaring errors. You have no real concept of racism, when it started or why. Racism was caused by white people who thought they were better than negroes and they had the right to own them. Not even the 13th amendment stopped it. It just changed the way they used black people. Study up. If white people were “allowed” to do as their conscious directed they would have strung up more blacks to hang from the trees. You honestly think they would have ” turned the other cheek” and treated blacks with a loving Christian heart? That is extremely naive. Another sentence of stupidity is implying that only republicans are christians because you wrote that people who are politically left don’t believe in God. If I were christian that sure wouldn’t make me want to be a republican. This kind of stupidity is why this country was formed with the separation of church and state. YOU are the kind of person our forefathers were concerned about. Politics is NOT about religion, it is about governing ALL people regardless of race and religion.

    And the bakery that refused to serve the gay couple got fined 150k! That is great news. Maybe that will teach them to keep their prejudices inside their home and not inflict it on other human beings. In fact, I hope they lost their shop if they can’t see the error of their ways, good christians that they are. That, dear sir, is the working of The Law of Cause and Effect.

    • Robert V says:

      Jamie,

      “You have no real concept of racism, when it started or why. Racism was caused by white people who thought they were better than negroes and they had the right to own them.”

      Wow. Really? I can find examples of racial hatred in the Bible that predate the particular brand of racism found in white society by several thousand years.

      The lynchings that you refer to were caused by widespread white resentment against the punitive measures used by the North against the South after the Civil War. Called carpet bagging in histories, the North essentially raped the South economically and pauperized many white families. Essentially, the South was treated similar to the way Germany was in the Treaty of Versailles. Had a more “Christian”/”forgive your enemies” approach been taken in both cases, the resulting hatred would not have caused so much damage. In one case, carpet bagging led to lynchings and Jim Crow, in the other case, extreme punitive measures led to World War II and the Holocaust. Politically correct draconian tactics have historically led to mass murder and bloodshed. This is a fact and you need to read up on Robespierre and the Revolution of France if you want to know more. The bottom line is that the draconian penalties you seem to support will inevitably lead to mass murder and totalitarianism. If I am right, you will see these things in the next few years.

      I don’t know how I implied that only Republicans are Christians. As I have written in a number of other posts on this site, I am not a Republican. (See “Thank God for Mitt Romney” for my position on the Republican party and “The Politics of Abortion” for how I think Christians should work outside of politics.) My only point in “Standing for the Truth” was that Christians cannot compromise the word of God and say that homosexuality is not a sin. I am not saying that we should pass DOMA or any other law, just that we need to stand up for what we believe even if you put us out of business, torture or kill us.

      Thanks for your comments,

      rob

      • sonniq says:

        Of course this is not the only time of racism.Go back and reread what you wro
        te.I never said I support draconian penalties. Go back and reread what I wrote. You heavily implied leftists are atheists, did you not?
        What is the opposite of that? Those on the right are God fearing Christians. True? Is that begat you said? When it comes to killing
        more people have been killed in the name of Christianity from trying to force people. For most of history it has been Christians doing
        the killing, Christians raising armies, Christians being judgmental, “God hates fags” signs. Christians killing abortion
        doctors. All because people don’t believe what you do. Presidents have to pretend to be good Christians whether they believe it or
        not. Christians want to change history books in the south to say the slaves didn’t have it so bad. It is Christians who do the
        persecuting, What if a Muslim our a Buddhist owned the bakery and refused to serve Christians? Oh my the uproar because
        then you’d say the Christians were being persecuted. How dare that Muslim not serve Christians because this is America one nation under God, right? Some good Christian would probably torch his store. Except that are not one nation under God, are we? – since there are many millions of people living here that don’t believe it. I have seen so much hate coming from good Christians. Everyone believes different pieces of the Bible and applies it wherever and whenever they want. No one seriously looks at the consequences of what they do There is no thought to “you reap what you sow” Who cares? God will forgive you.

        Read your last line. “Even if YOU put us out of business. Take responsibility. If you get put out of business it is the effect of causes YOU made. The store owner made – because of being a bigot. If you’re going to take that attitude into the business world that is a cause THEY made. No one else. they reaped the effect of their cause. And they got slapped by the government. Good. Maybe next time they’ll keep their religion where it belongs. In their personal life.

      • Robert V says:

        Jamie,

        Your understanding of reality is laughably absurd and I cannot take the time to reverse years of indoctrination. Christians are responsible for most murders in history? Wow!!! Do you know the history of the 20th century where more people were murdered than in any other century? There would be outrage if Christians weren’t served by a Muslim? Are you kidding? Christians are being systematically exterminated in the Middle East and there is not a peep about it in the mainstream media. Muslims throw Christians overboard on refugee boats and are subsequently welcomed into Europe. “I don’t support draconian penalties, I just believe that it is good news that a baker gets a $150,000.00 fine for refusing to bake a cake.” Drive drunk and recklessly endanger human life and get a $1000.00 fine. Refuse to bake a cake and get fined 150K that takes your business and ruins your life and you think it is not draconian. You live in a bubble of “Jamie created reality” where things are true because you say so.

        I cannot argue with crazy.

        rob

      • sonniq says:

        First of all, I’m not Jamie. He’s been in prison the last ten years. 2nd, you can’t read. I never said Christians were responsible for most murders. More wars have been fight throughout trying to make the world Christian, forcing it on entire regions and countries throughout the world. Even Hitler did what he did because he was a devout Christian. You are too shortsighted. So yeah, you’re right, I can’t communicate with someone who believes in fairy tales because he’s too stupid to get his nose outof a book that has been changed so many times to suit the control in the past of the king. Why is there a king James version? Because it’s how he wanted it to read, and people still use it. So crawl back under your deluded rock Rob. Maybe Christians getting exterminated in the middle is payback for all the people That died in the name of Christianity in the past. Or does that not count? After all, what you sow, you shall reap. Do you think only what happened since the 20th century counts? Apparently.

      • Robert V says:

        Not Jamie,

        “Even Hitler did what he did because he was a devout Christian”

        You do not know anything about history. Look at Robespierre’s Terror, Stalin’s purges and Mao’s cultural revolution. Christian nations may have been involved in a number of wars, but when it comes to murdering mass number of civilians you leftists don’t take a back seat to anyone and that is a simple fact.

        Thanks for your comments,

        rob

      • sonniq says:

        Interpret history the way it suits you. Fact is fact. Hitler was a Christian purifying the human race as he thought God wanted it. Twisted, yes, but he still did it as a devout Christian.

      • Robert V says:

        Sonniq,

        I responded to your comment in a separate post. http://wp.me/p3bwQl-M6

        God Bless,

        rob

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